The latest in Democratic conflict

I've been posting a lot recently, at least a lot on my watch. I don't think many of my readers are getting a chance to see everything, since they aren't used to this many posts. So before you read this one, check out the previous few since the PA primary.

Paul Krugman, Princeton Economist and stupidhead, has been one of my favorite people the past couple of months. He's definitely been a stalwart Democrat through the tumultuous times in the past fifteen years, but has been offering fresh air into the recent conflict in the Democratic Party that is diving the progressive movement, and it all has to do with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. For some reason, the supporters of each candidate have become increasingly rabid. I have kept myself out of the fight, since I'm still in love with John Edwards, so I think I might still be able to provide some objectivity when it comes to observing this fight.

Supporters on both sides don't even seem to listen to what the other candidate and his or her supporters have to say. All they hear is "blah blah blah lies lies lies I'm an idiot." And this is very problematic for Democracy in America. This group of progressives is on the verge of making a major breakthrough in American democracy, reviving it, and advancing it to the next stage, a new golden age of American priciples. But we are really getting wrapped up in this my team vs. their team mentality in this primary race. The Left bloggers, especially, are very partisan in their attitudes, and are extremely hard on Republicans (warranted, I might add), but these hyper partisan attitudes are surfacing in defining Obama and Clinton as ultimate adversaries instead of friendly competitors who are striving to make each other better candidates.

All we've heard is how negative the campaigns have been recently, and everyone wants to blame Clinton. Well, she had to play the negative card first, because she was behind first. That's what you do in American politics. But as Krugman says:

According to many Obama supporters, it’s all Hillary’s fault. If she hadn’t launched all those vile, negative attacks on their hero — if she had just gone away — his aura would be intact, and his mission of unifying America still on track.

But how negative has the Clinton campaign been, really? Yes, it ran an ad that included Osama bin Laden in a montage of crisis images that also included the Great Depression and Hurricane Katrina. To listen to some pundits, you’d think that ad was practically the same as the famous G.O.P. ad accusing Max Cleland of being weak on national security.

It wasn’t. The attacks from the Clinton campaign have been badminton compared with the hardball Republicans will play this fall. If the relatively mild rough and tumble of the Democratic fight has been enough to knock Mr. Obama off his pedestal, what hope did he ever have of staying on it through the general election?

Krugman is a master at succinctly laying out his arguments, and in this case, his gripes. He is extremely concerned with the Healthcare issue--definitely a progressive value--and the economy--something Obama has no clue about. So in this respect, Krugman leans heavily towards Clinton, though much closer to Edwards, who is of course, missing.

Also, something that has made Clinton and Obama supporters more bitter, has been that the hype train is finally slowing down in regards to Obama. Yeah, he's just not all that exciting anymore. People have figured him out. He always says good stuff, but I'm no longer transfixed by his words, voice, or looks. The proverbial cool-aid is starting to wear off. Says Krugman:

What a comedown. A few months ago the Obama campaign was talking about transcendence. Now it’s talking about math. “Yes we can” has become “No she can’t.”

Decidedly not cool, and not inspirational in the least.

What increasingly bothering me about Obama supporters is that they keep changing their strategy. First Obama was religious, and would be able to get the religious right to drop the Republican Party. Well, instead of doing that, the religious right is just going to stay home if Obama gets the nomination. So that doesn't work. What's next? Ah, celebrity endorsements. If Scarlett Johanssen likes Obama, it's gonna make everyone want to vote for Obama. Cool! Oh wait, those aren't regular Americans. That didn't work. Okay, so phase three is to paint Republicans as regular American people, which is decidely not something the Left Bloggers would have ever even thought about advocating before, and Obama somehow is getting Republicans to vote for him, even though he has been painted as very liberal, and the math they are using is based on the closed PA primary. What morons.

Says Krugman:

From the beginning, I wondered what Mr. Obama’s soaring rhetoric, his talk of a new politics and declarations that “we are the ones we’ve been waiting for” (waiting for to do what, exactly?) would mean to families troubled by lagging wages, insecure jobs and fear of losing health coverage. The answer, from Ohio and Pennsylvania, seems pretty clear: not much. Mrs. Clinton has been able to stay in the race, against heavy odds, largely because her no-nonsense style, her obvious interest in the wonkish details of policy, resonate with many voters in a way that Mr. Obama’s eloquence does not.

And if it were racism, Krugman would have pointed it out, since in his book, The Conscience of a Liberal, he talks about how racism has affected American politics very openly. PA voters aren't racist, especially not the Catholic ones. Some people are racist in PA, but they are either Republicans, or they don't vote, because they don't give a crap.

So through all this, Hillary Clinton still has supporters. Somehow.  Clearly, something in Obama's message isn't clicking anymore. The 50 State campaign strategy for Obama looks dead (Just check the front page of MyDD.com) All signs should point to Hillary being dead. But she's not. We have to figure out why. We need to win this presidency, and finding the answer will hopefully allow Obama to get a clue and stop trying to be so damn unique, should he win the nomination in August.

But the message that Democrats are ready to continue and build on a grand tradition doesn’t mesh well with claims to be bringing a “new politics” and rhetoric that places blame for our current state equally on both parties.

And unless Democrats can get past this self-inflicted state of confusion, there’s a very good chance that they’ll snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this fall.



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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

damn i assume your talking about the electoral map!! i would have never noticed if you hadn't said to look on the page...

wow....


--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--
by amde on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:13:02 PM EST

Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

haha, yeah my first diary entry. I really wrote it for my non blog-literate friends. I will probably come off as an idiot in this post. But I'm fine with that. For now.


by The Best Blogger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:18:02 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

well congrats on a good first diary...

maybe the electoral map is getting back to the good ole days when we won elections...

Photobucket


--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--
by amde on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:24:14 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

YOu know that's how it should look. And you won't believe this, but I just talked to Mark Crispin Miller yesterday (he was on campus), and what he talks about with election fraud, all those blue states on your map there seem to be blue if not for...well, it's taboo.


by The Best Blogger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:26:30 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (2.00 / 1)

You're griping about the Obama campaign's perceived changes in strategy?

Do you remember the debate where Clinton waxed poetic about how honored she was to be on the stage with Obama, and practically the next morning was out waving a piece of campaign literature and shouting "Shame on you Barack Obama" as if she had just picked it up off the street?

If anything, Obama's message and tactics have remained remarkably consistent, while the Clinton campaign has been feverishly digging through their musty old toolbox and alternately hurling kitchen sinks or pandering to "hard-working Americans who roll up their sleeves and go to work".

Give me a break.


by emptythreatsfarm on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:13:32 PM EST

Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

Obama has definitely been more consistent, I just don't think they are perfect, not in the sense that many supporters have been claiming.


by The Best Blogger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:19:12 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

Consistent is good.  At least his campaign hasn't morphed and restrategised at every turn in the road.  Who had the better strategy from day one?  That's not a trivial point and may give an insight into the administration of their respective hypothetical presidencies.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:22:14 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

There has never been a perfectly run presidential campaign in the history of this country.

I don't know any Obama supporters who wouldn't admit that his campaign has made some mistakes.


by emptythreatsfarm on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:29:08 PM EST
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What's the argument? (none / 0)

That some Obama supporters have thought that Obama had no flaws? Well not me, in any case. I just thought he was better than the others. By the way, it doesn't seem a particularly strong argument to me. What this has to do with Obama himself?


by Fairy Tale on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:34:43 PM EST
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Re: What's the argument? (none / 0)

Yeah, I'm missing an argument.


by The Best Blogger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:43:09 PM EST
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Re: What's the argument? (none / 0)

I like your style.


by Fairy Tale on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:56:07 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

That's because you probably know political knowledgeable Obama supporters. Sheesh. I got friends coming out the ears that think Obama is monolithically perfect.


by The Best Blogger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:32:03 PM EST

Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (2.00 / 1)

Some interesting points.  However, saying that "what increasingly bothering me about Obama supporters is that they keep changing their strategy" does not seem like a great way to contrast the two campaigns.  

After all the Clinton campaign is no paragon of consistency.  Remember how Obama hadn't passed the C in C threshold, yet would make a great VP, but no actually by the summer he would maybe pass the C in C threshold.  

Or the initial Clinton strategy that everything came down to the delegates (this before and just after Iowa when the Clinton campaign seemed to have a lockdown on the superdelegates), but now it's actually about the popular vote (because if you exclude some of the caucus states and include Florida and Michigan and assume that Obama received 0 votes in Michigan, then Clinton is a nose ahead on this measure).  

Not to mention a pledge to accept the DNC ruling about MI and FL (which made strategic sense if you have a primary that ends on Super Duper Tuesday) and then deciding that disenfranchisement was suddenly more important (after the primary did not end on Super Duper Tuesday).

And surely if it's true that "the religious right is just going to stay home if Obama gets the nomination", well maybe I'm missing something, but that doesn't seem so bad to me.  Isn't that better than having them come out and vote against a candidate they are highly unfavorable of...?


by outoftown on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 07:35:55 PM EST

Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

Jan. 25, 2008 (before it was beneficial to argue for it, before she even knew the results from the primaries in MI (Jan 26) and FL (Jan 29) and before super tuesday....):

"I know other campaigns have tried to downplay the significance of these two states," Clinton told reporters. "I think that is not a good strategy for Democrats or any of us who cares about the outcome of this election."

and...

"I believe our nominee will need the enthusiastic support of Democrats in these states to win the general election, and so I will ask my Democratic convention delegates to support seating the delegations from Florida and Michigan"

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/i dUSN2533575920080126

secondly...

64%-69% of Catholics prefer Clinton to Obama.

Now, whether you like it or not, we cannot win the presidency with our usual demographics; we must reach out to demographics that are democratic but have voted republican in the past, aka Catholics. We dont win using Kerry and Gore's strategies, we must go back to a strategy that includes people of all walks of life, including religious people and stop with this left v right war. Religious people voted overwhelmingly for Bill in 1992 so it is possible to gain their votes.


--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--
by amde on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:19:19 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

Yes, that's a good quote.  I actually spent a little time hunting for the earliest Clinton comment of this nature that I could find.  And I think it's interesting, that in a primary when campaigns and candidates are speaking on the record practically every single waking moment of the day, that there's really very little of this nature to be found until February.  (compare the tone of it too to later comments)

It's perhaps also useful to remember the landscape of January 25.  I think there are some good HRC quotes from around this time reminding us all "that this thing will be over on Feb 5".  Everyone miscalculated.

And this plays directly into MI and FL because no one expected it to really matter (within the grand scope of the primary).  Isn't that why HRC agreed to the DNC rulings in the first place?

It's funny, but a lot of people blame Dean for this mess (with some justification - 1/2 delegates would have arguably been better).  But there's also the huge mistake, I think, that HRC made in going along with it.  You have to wonder what she would have done then if she knew what she knows now.

BTW: does anyone have a quote of HRC before Jan 25 saying she will try to seat the delegates?


by outoftown on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:45:09 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

she made one last OCt/Nov. or so to the effect of 'there will be a solution' to the whole MI and FL deal, Ive been looking for it but you have to go pretty far back in the google finds to get anything from last year...

i think the quotes just disprove the whole :'it is so politically convenient for her to fight for revotes' she urged for a solution when she was winning and didnt need them.


--++++Stay Gold, Ponyboy!++++--
by amde on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:18:16 PM EST
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Re: The latest in Democratic conflict (none / 0)

Nice signature quote. I'm gonna have to find me one of those to match my ridiculously egocentric screen name or handle or whatever we call such things here.

Oh, and great insight. See, this is where I think that it's surprising, but Clinton might be able to break the traditional Democratic coalition as much as Obama might be able to.


by The Best Blogger on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:23:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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